The Removing Paid-For Content Discussion | Slightly Post-War Podcast

  • Publisert 22 dager siden

    The Escapist

    Runtime: 48:08

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    This week on Slightly Civil War, Yahtzee and Jack debate whether developers should be allowed to change a game after release.
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The Escapist
The Escapist

Starting this week, we're splitting up the main animated episode and podcast into their own episodes to try and make sure people aren't confused about the length of episodes. Watch the main episode here: https://youtu.be/eeOp6hTX-sA

21 dag siden
Dasgath
Dasgath

Im still cunfus

19 dager siden
TheTechiemoses
TheTechiemoses

Can we have the updates automatically? But able to select the version? Similar to how minecraft is. Good for speed running, lan parties, digital archiving, preventing sneaky corporate greed, and community/mod support.

20 dager siden
Talia Rock
Talia Rock

In regards to the episode and WoW, there are also private servers that allow for you to play before the Cataclysm. From what I can remember if you didn't upgrade when Cata released you were stuck with the world the way it was. However there was a bit of a compromise as Blizz crafted into some of the maps a way to play the previous maps before the change. That is not for every map but for some of them. But for those who don't want to play retail wow this folds back into my first point. there are private servers.

20 dager siden
Steven Thomas
Steven Thomas

@The Escapist all hail the algorithm

20 dager siden
The Escapist
The Escapist

@Charm Chaster "Pats head" We hate the algorithm too.

21 dag siden
12Daniel34
12Daniel34

MW 2019 was a great live service that got a lot of free content, and Warzone, which is free itself, has the same great gameplay from MW.

5 timer siden
Noowis
Noowis

I think that games should take from minecraft, where they let you download from any of the previous patches that you want, all the way back to alpha.

Dag siden
Johnny Luken
Johnny Luken

The idea of measuring objective value of a game with how long a competent player can play without repeating content isn't that impractical actually. There are already machine learning algorithms that can efficiently play games like Tetris and even Super Mario Brothers, and once algorithms evolve enough to handle more complex games this process can be automated.

2 dager siden
Vincent Dennis
Vincent Dennis

There's so much that you guys are saying that I fundamentally disagree with. Movie history is one of constant reinvention and technological development. Not just in how the stories are told, the cameras, the rigging - but if you watch old movies, movies before about 2010, nothing happens for the first 15 minues, minimum. Old movies, particularly black and white movies, were shot like stage productions, with stage actors. There were stories that couldn't be told because of technological limitations. I'm thinking about the Star Wars prequels. Lucas has talked ad nauseum about how he couldn't make them pre-CGI. Every artistic medium is constantly evolving. Yahtzee, bro, look at writing. 10000 years of writing, and the novel didnt appear in the West until 400 BP. (El Don Quijote is widely considered the first novel in the west. 1000BP was The Tale of Genji from Japan). Authors constantly update their work. Look at Stephen King's The Gunslinger. Look at the Renaissance: it took us literally more tham 100,000 years of painting (there are cave paintings that date back nearly 200,000 years BP) to develop Perspective. da Vinci didn't "finish" much of his work because he would abandon it before it was perfect. We want things to stay how they are because that's what we want. Death of the Developer?

5 dager siden
Niel Fourie
Niel Fourie

Thanks to patches SHIFT received in February and April, I would love if The borderlands games loose their live service functionality. I could still connect to mates via LAN and steam with none of the stuttering.

8 dager siden
retepsemaj96
retepsemaj96

I think Jack's point about access to the original is the best approach to take. If updates and changes are optional (and preferably reversible in case you installed it prior to realising it was nefarious) then it quite neatly solves both scenarios. Choose to accept bug fixes but not let content be removed. Also helps solve the grey area as it allows you to disagree about whether a new feature improves the game or not.

8 dager siden
Josh McKenzie
Josh McKenzie

Minecraft, while not specifically a live service, does a lot of these things right. You can play older versions, updates are free and there is consistent work to fix bugs, has a verity of ways to play online with their servers or your own.

10 dager siden
ekimmak
ekimmak

I very clearly remember one game where the start of it has the bad guy say "You signed your name on this term of agreements." and the protagonist can counter with "Nobody ever reads those!" Villain: "... You know, that's true."' I dunno, the terms and agreements just feel off to me. The only time anyone cares is when they're being used for evil.

10 dager siden
Isen
Isen

RIP Pepper the Pupper

10 dager siden
iforinsignificant
iforinsignificant

I feel like the reviewers of these high end games also contribute to this sparkly shiny graphics thing that's become an obsession with game publishers because they say stuff like... "look at the shadows with Ray tracing on on my 65 inch IPS panel 144hz 4k monitor". I have no idea how that minuscule detail contributes to the majority of the gamers out there who can only afford like mid-tier GPUs and displays but there you go. It has become a vital part of the review so anyone who thinks of themselves as tech-savvy or whatever seems to think they have to chase these stupid pointless additions to the graphics for games even though they take up most of the resources and contribute nothing to the gameplay or story.

11 dager siden
Nargen Hargul
Nargen Hargul

The content they removed is technically not part any kind of season pass now with the switch to steam. Not saying it is good, just that they are probably standing behind that making it okay

11 dager siden
DatCameraMON
DatCameraMON

I think there is a key distinction between a live service game, like WoW, and a normal, say, shooter like Halo 3. For WoW, I don't own a copy of World of Warcraft. It isn't (officially) a separate entity that I can play without the subscription. I don't own a game, I'm paying into a service that allows me to use it via my payment, the subscription, as long as I can/want to continue to pay for it. Paying for an expansion is just unlocking access to that specific content. With a normal game, like Halo 3, I own a copy of Halo 3. It is mine, I have paid for a product, not a service. I am not forced to continuously pay for access to that item, therefore, it's not a service, it's a product. Just my two cents, Yahtzee, Jack.

12 dager siden
Immudzen
Immudzen

For good live service games I would say Warframe and you could probably extend it to things like Everquest 1, Everquest 2, World of Warcraft and Elder Scrolls Online.

13 dager siden
Immudzen
Immudzen

There was an old MMO Asheron's Call and every month they went to the next phase of the story and this lasted for years. This also meant that content would go away from the game and new content would be added. It was part of the evolving story. So you would have an invasion in some area, players would fight it and solve some dungeon puzzles and with those enemies defeated that stuff would go away and something newer was added.

13 dager siden
Jasutus
Jasutus

The best live service game is unironically Old School Runescape.

14 dager siden
Orgspasm
Orgspasm

God I wish NK had just blown the states off the face of the earth. So sick of hearing them whine about their president as if he's any worse than dubya

15 dager siden
Will
Will

I looked for it, I found it in my notification bell because I am a member....super convenient. (Wink wink nudge nudge)

15 dager siden
fusionfountain
fusionfountain

33:20 Suddenly my man looking real nervous 👀

16 dager siden
Marcus W.
Marcus W.

just pull a minecraft and let the player choose the game version

16 dager siden
YOBLECK
YOBLECK

game devs should just do it minecraft/factorio style and allow players to download older versions of the game and the appropriate version of the server client or something like that.

16 dager siden
Princess
Princess

Good live service game? Chromehounds. Easy. A live service before Live service game. Free content dropped weekly, a large global battle map to keep track of. And a single player that was only there to train you for the Multiplayer.

16 dager siden
burger king
burger king

The 2 of these guys are just great together

16 dager siden
Xander Crease
Xander Crease

@28:41 Payday 2. I didn't even know it was a "live service" game, playing it completely Offline for the first 2 years, not spending a penny. The base game is huge and costs less than $4/£3 on sale days.

16 dager siden
Seth Foss
Seth Foss

So for Quality Live Service game, Warframe! Oh there is a grind if you are going for a thing, but if you're just going for story, you don't have to go out of your way. Also this is free to play. Sure, I kinda would like to have a documentation of all changes. Specifically a favorite frame EMBER has had her powers reworked at least 3 times to my instant memory. Then there have been over hauls on all content and movement systems. And when i say this is free to play, It is also significantly not able to get much advantage for spending money. Double exp or drops for a duration, but seriously that is not inherently useful for anyone that has been playing for years...

16 dager siden
David Lewis
David Lewis

In the past games were released and that was it, then they went digital and more could be added. Most games have a "life cycle" of being current and supported, such as bioshock one. At the end the game should stay as that. Any rerelease should be in addition to that. If a developer is to stop supporting, that is abandon the game. Then they should stop the connection requirements and allow the game to be available elsewhere so that it can still be played. As for content, developers shouldn't be able to remove content at has been part of the product promotion. And instead of reducing scope, why not say, have more achievable deadlines instead?

16 dager siden
Karl Nilsson
Karl Nilsson

do all these episodes move so slowly? do they know they're being recorded?

17 dager siden
nuttspaz1
nuttspaz1

Are live service games the soap operas of gaming.

17 dager siden
Sarah Weisters
Sarah Weisters

Audio really quiet for anyone else?

17 dager siden
Xanthelei
Xanthelei

Edit: Yahtzee finally remembered Cata, lol. Yes, you got access to the updated content if you didn't buy the expansion, but my point was that epic-length quest lines were completely removed and some achievements 'archived' as feats of strength purely because of the changes made. Content was lost, and people moved on. D2 players will find themselves in this same boat in a year or two. Hell, my fiancée who played WoW hasn't batted an eye at the changes in D2 because she remembers the Cata launch. This is a conversation we already had years ago. World of Warcraft: Cataclysm completely revamped the vanilla game, removing entire questlines, regions, achievements, and reputation grinds. A lot of people were upset, but it also allowed them to fix things that weren't polished in the game when it launched, introduce new zones and mechanics, improve questing/leveling curves, etc. Most players won't say today that the changes made in Cata a were bad, despite the feeling of the playerbase at the time. I have a feeling we'll see the same thing in D2, and this will return to being a non-issue. MMOs (including "live service games, which are just renamed MMOs) have always been their own beast within the gaming industry. You have to approach things like WoW and D2 differently than you do games like Assassin's Creed or Sims 4 because the fundamental way they function is different.

17 dager siden
SweetKiren
SweetKiren

Pepper and Cookie 😍 You know, peppercookies are actually a thing, many european countries have them instead of gingerbread cookies 😊

18 dager siden
lord buss
lord buss

16:57 Choice is key here. 42:26 Something like that happened in a book by the Russian writer Rudazov. But it was movies, not games. 43:44 and thus the post-apocalyptic tomato-critic Yahtzee AU was born.

18 dager siden
Inventor Maniatic
Inventor Maniatic

people are againts it until you realize it takes 20+ seconds for your inventory to load in consoles

18 dager siden
Joe Gioia
Joe Gioia

Fixing things after the game comes out is understandable, but big developers should really stop releasing broken ass games then getting them to what people expected it to be two years after (looking at you, r6 siege and fallout 76). If fallout 76 had launched in the state that it's in right now, it would have been insanely well received. Also FO76 did have the false advertising legal argument hit in Australia after launch I believe.

18 dager siden
Night Cat
Night Cat

The idea of putting bug fix patches in as DLC (alongside new features and changes to existing ones) is actually a really good one & it'd be great to see that implemented by the first party for once. Modders have been doing exactly that for decades & it works really well. The problem is multiplayer games, primarily battle royale & MMO ones, where such modular approach would fracture the playerbase potentially to such a degree as to remove a large part of the point from the product. There's really no way to get around that without some legislation that would require them not to remove existing (at least paid for) content. Happily, a product sold does have to match up with what was promised by its marketing, so removal of launch content is arguably already a loser in legal terms & a case could set a requirement for refunds in such a situation (I think it's part of the "fit for purpose" bit of consumer rights legislation). If this happens then it might push these live service things to go free to play, which I think would be an extremely good thing (knowing that they would die if they take any paywall/pay-to-win/pay-to-skip-the-grind stuff too far, since they have no initial downpayment income to fall back on).

18 dager siden
willis936
willis936

Good live service game: Warframe. I haven't played in 2 years and not with any regularity in 4 years, but I have ~1500 hours in the game. The game is free but supported with microtransactions. No lootboxes. Importantly, I played the game for over a hundred hours before I put any money into it, and even when I did the motivation was a combination of supporting the developer and freedom to progress to higher end builds that would allow for better grind. The game is heavy on the grind, but the minmaxing of characters/weapon stats and fun gameplay made it fun. You will decide if it is fun long before you feel the need to put money into the game for gameplay limiting reasons. They do occasionally take content away ("vaulting"), but it is modified versions of characters of weapons, not game levels. They do also sometimes take away game levels, but it is only done in a "replace" operation with fancier artwork and more clever level design that matches the evolving gameplay mechanics. There is no "1.0" of the game. It all hinges on the goodwill of the developers. They hold weekly livestreams, listen to community feedback, and (typically) don't screw players over. Warframe is the closest example of an ideal service game I can think of. Is it good? Yeah. Does it prey on addictive personalities? Yeah, but not as evilly as AAA publishers. Should it be legislated out of existence? No. Also, Jack mentioned the words "Perfect World" a few times while talking about games legislation. Funnily enough there is a gmaes company in China called "Perfect World" that implements some Valve games (including csgo) inside the heavy handed Ministry of Culture oversight. A lot of the legislation is a strong win for the consumer that is abused by these giant amoral corporations. Finding the balance that works for everyone is the trick.

18 dager siden
Paul Smith
Paul Smith

Haha, I live in Basingstoke!!!! This is an interesting subject, but as a Destiny 2 player, I honestly have no objection to the locations disappearing in the way they have. Most of them we have had for 3 years and if we are getting different content I am not upset. The alternative would be a new game where the content is all new like the move from D1 to D2. And I can't see anybody wanting that

18 dager siden
Bernardo Balugas
Bernardo Balugas

Following Jack's reasoning around the 27:00 minute mark, just look at the Farming Simulator games. They enable the dowloand/purchase of specific DLCs but at all time when loading up a saved game you have the ability to select if you want to use it or not

18 dager siden
accquizzer
accquizzer

Jack, how could you let Cookie be so under-represented when Pepper is so over-represented?

18 dager siden
Sephitar
Sephitar

If World of Warcraft didn't ALSO charge for expansions and just charged the outrageous monthly fee I'd be fine with whatever they decide to do, because you can always just stop paying.

18 dager siden
starterpack295
starterpack295

one thing worth noting is that the content they removed was mostly kinda shit; with the exception of mars and even then the mars missions weren't that great it was the public event's.

18 dager siden
Achyut Dwivedi
Achyut Dwivedi

Monster Hunter World does adding additional content the best.

18 dager siden
Durandol
Durandol

To be fair, I'd totally play Wrath of the Bollock Sandwich. Sounds a lot more interesting than most things I've heard about lately.

19 dager siden
George M
George M

Content removal is why I quit Destiny 2. That and they "lost" my account when leaving Battlenet.

19 dager siden
Niel Fourie
Niel Fourie

Sorry for your loss. It sucks loosing account data.

8 dager siden
Chris Watkins
Chris Watkins

There was a manual transfer process, and anyone who didn't do it lost their account. I really don't understand why they couldn't automate it.

19 dager siden
Topo842
Topo842

Well... Warframe is grindy... but it is FREE! and they keep adding things for free

19 dager siden
Vincent Wynne
Vincent Wynne

Cutting off live service games loses pretty much all Esports currently played. Dota 2, rainbow six, counter strike, league of legends, rocket league, valiant, overwatch, apex legends, fortnite, pubg and so on. I agree that single player games or story based games like destiny or stardew valley, co-op games like destiny and a way out, those games I agree should be preserved in the way that jack and Yahtz are speaking about. Esports are a great part of the modern culture and getting rid of those would be horrendous for the video game world. A game like DotA 2 has been around for almost 10 years now (out of beta) and is still one of my favourite games, and still one of the biggest esports. I think if there were to be a law, it would have to exclude esports as a whole. I do think base games should be available, but only as an archive. Story games should not have the ability to remove large chunks or change large chunks or the experience. In Esports, it's almost a necessity. Tl;dr: basically just let Esports games do whatever and change whatever they feel like because it's just part of the experience and keeps the games alive, but keep archived base versions. With story based games, intended as art, prevent interference after a certain time period and do not allow removal of large parts of the games. Keep the core experience as it is and archive the fuck out of it.

19 dager siden
stevemtownjr
stevemtownjr

Directors cuts are not the same because if you own the DVD they can't come and cut from it

19 dager siden
Ajrox -
Ajrox -

When did Yahtzee become a stereotypical British Dad?

19 dager siden
pendingrequest
pendingrequest

Warframe if pretty rad as a live service game

19 dager siden
pendingrequest
pendingrequest

Also Eve: online is pretty awesome

19 dager siden
Fernando
Fernando

Warframe. It's grindy af, but it has a lot of varied mechanics

19 dager siden
animeartist888
animeartist888

Throughout this whole discussion, I counldn't help but constantly think of Minecraft. They've been adding and adding and adding since it's birth. I paid 10 bucks for it while it was in early beta, and now I'm still getting the 1.19 update for free. At this point, the game I originally paid for, the game at full release 1.0, and this current updated game- Those are three very different beasts. There wasn't even a final boss or any sort of plot when I first bought the game. And now there are a million biomes and creatures that I never even considered might exist one day. There have been so many updates that I kinda wish they'd quit 'cuz it makes it really hard to get back into playing knowing that this game I've known for over a decade is now full of foreign lands and creatures and mechanics. But, is that bad? With how much added content is coming down the pipeline at all times, I almost feel bad for only ever paying that one initial 10 buck charge. That said, the Minecraft launcher has this beauteous feature- it allows you to choose which update you want to play on. You can play the beta of the upcoming update; you can play current version; you can play every update all the way back to the initial release. They didn't have to do that, but I very much appreciate it being there. Don't like the bees? You don't have to play with them. Dislike the nether being different? Turn back a few updates. Wish there was less in the oceans? Wind back further. Really wish more games would do this model, but I also understand why they don't.

19 dager siden
Nastrael Rowe
Nastrael Rowe

The way WoW expansions work(ed) is that new expansion content would be in your game regardless if you bought it or not. You, however, would not be able to improve your character to the new level cap (i.e. you would be forever level 80 in a level 85 world) and there might be some brand new lower level zones you didn't have access to (e.g. the Blood Elf and Draenei starting zones in the Burning Crusade expansion). In the case of Cataclysm, all the zone changes would be in your game if you didn't buy the expansion, you just couldn't get to the *brand new* areas (e.g. Mount Hyjal, Uldum, etc)

19 dager siden
Spencer Williams
Spencer Williams

I don’t think you guys should talk about films or the what goes into making films or the technology of films if you don’t have the knowledge behind it. Saying “it’s been the same for 100 years” is ignorance at its finest. The way we capture films have changed, the way films are shot has changed, where and how films are made has changed, the way people experience films has changed, how post production in films has changed, the way stories are integrated has changed. This such a disservice to the industry it makes me border line irate. But I know the two of you are intelligent and don’t mean harm by saying this, but please look up the industry(not the corporate bs) and identify what has stayed the same and what hasn’t instead of generalizing.

19 dager siden
Zain Lookboonmee
Zain Lookboonmee

The congresswoman is Alexandra Ocasio Cortez. She's like 30 or 31 right now.

19 dager siden
AlluMan96
AlluMan96

Being able to cycle backwards through builds of the game would be nice. Like, the game could be at 1.3, but with just a trip to a game's properties page, you could go and play the game on the 1.2 build. I doubt you could do that online, but it'd be a step in the right direction if you could do that on offline modes of games.

19 dager siden
Maromania
Maromania

The issue with your liveservice mindset is that you're shoving every game in existance into one little box you're familiar. let me pose this- there is a carnival come to town. for $20 you can get a ticket that'll let you in as long as you want until they pack up and move to the next town. do you pitch a fit because in a week they're gone? of course not, it's a service you realized would eventually leave when you showed up. THIS IS LIVESERVICE. We don't play a multiplayer online game with the expectation it'll live forever. we might have different ideas of how many years are expected, but we buy it realizing that we aren't getting it forever. We will hopefully reminisce on the good old days, but we don't rage that the MMO we played in our youth died out. You're only thinking about this in the mindset of the old cartridge games you got to keep until the machines died and the batteries lost charge, which isn't invalid in some genres but is not the only way. Hell, I have friends who couldn't care less because they don't replay thier old games anyway, so they jump on these, PREFER these. because the experience is being constantly updated and changed to keep things fresh, and by the time they die...well, they died because nobody was wanting to play them anyway, the base moved on because they all know what they were getting into.

19 dager siden
The Elike
The Elike

Speaking of dev patching in free content Warframe also vaults content but their new stuff is alway free to play. I think if Destiny released the content for free I'd be more willing to tolerate it rotating out.

20 dager siden
TheLlama
TheLlama

I dont know if Rainbow Six Siege is Applicable as a live service game (at 28:20) I enjoy Siege but Im not sure if you'd count siege as a Live Service Game

20 dager siden
JayStorm
JayStorm

Minecraft is one of those games that constantly updates and add more content without pay

20 dager siden
JayStorm
JayStorm

Changing game after release i think is all Positive the developer doesn't have to but they do it anyways, so we can enjoy the game all the more.

20 dager siden
Rob
Rob

I don't know what happened to trigger this discussion, but there's already precedent for suing when features are removed. IIRC Sony was sued when the PS3 removed the 'Other OS' feature that allowed you to run Linux on the console. The suit alleged that it was deceptive and a breach of good faith, and Sony ended up settling rather than completing a trial.

20 dager siden
Cormac Daly
Cormac Daly

Should they start calling them "reductions" instead of "expansions" now?

20 dager siden
Niel Fourie
Niel Fourie

Reductionist expansions... Sure, you will miss the content. Just imagine how happy you will be when we bring it back.

8 dager siden
jack ford
jack ford

warframe?? as good live service?

20 dager siden
ImBoredToo
ImBoredToo

FFXIV is a great MMO but it technically is a GaaS

20 dager siden
john wrath
john wrath

HI PEPPER

20 dager siden
TheTechiemoses
TheTechiemoses

Just replace EA with Chevy. Chevy releases a not finished truck. Might get an update that fixes stuff, but it will also force unpleasant changes. Like adding ads that you have to watch every start, and stop lights. You can pre-order the truck. it will have collectors edition paint jobs and other things not allowed in standard models. Also, you pay for the truck. Yet somehow you don't fully own it. It has anti-thief mandatory add-ons. They don't protect against thief's as much as it protects against reselling or modifying. Worst of all, they stop supporting it shortly after release. Telling you to get fixes from the community.

20 dager siden
Eric Jett
Eric Jett

Yahtzee on Best of the Worst when?

20 dager siden
Danisz Szwed
Danisz Szwed

i dont think there exist any live service game that is fair other then warframe, however they can be generus becous they are on top

20 dager siden
thejackal007
thejackal007

Came for the fun debate and info, stayed for PUPPIES

20 dager siden
Arrythmic Silence
Arrythmic Silence

at 8:40, the argument about removing a section of the game is very close to the reason for the Destiny Content Vault given by Bungie. The game, during testing with all that they had + Beyond Light (the new expansion) was crashing systems on a fairly regular basis, so their fix is not to remove, but to take the most unplayed sections and tuck them away and work on them, and cycle the parts out with other parts. Think of it like a Board Game, you have all these expansions, making the board massive and unwieldy, and not quite fitting on your table, so you go through and you take a section away until such a time as all the pieces are ready for that part or w/e, and then you remove the part that has been finished or has been ignored, so that it fits on your table. I mean shit, the download file AFTER all those pieces were removed from Destiny is sitting at 160 gigs. I'm not making excuses or forgiving them (though, I didn't much care for Mercury (one of the areas removed)I did very much enjoy some of the other destinations they were removing, either for the scenery or w/e), but I AM saying If the reason they gave is honest, then I can understand, and it is a good enough reason for me.

20 dager siden
MR. J
MR. J

great biden won and his policies he wants to enact immediately are fucking horrible.

20 dager siden
Smart Smears
Smart Smears

All the free Terraria updates 9 years after the game came out is great.

20 dager siden
Astadyl
Astadyl

I like a lot of the ideas brought up here esp for the legislation But giving a time limit after release would mean the death of minecraft updates And while the core game loop of minecraft is solid I think we can all agree the updates makes the game even better I think a good point for drawing a line would instead focus on removal vs addition Even if the law would limit the range of change, deleting a character for bigotry reasons in a released game would be possible as it would be objectively a limited impact on the content It could be interesting to limit removals to features that directly and objectively hinder the playablity of the paid product (aka bugs), to prevent the removal of story, characters or level

20 dager siden
Michael-Paul Thompson
Michael-Paul Thompson

Can't you now get Star Wars original cuts on Blu-ray now? Pretty certain they released them as a beautiful trilogy collection last year

20 dager siden
JonMacFhearghuis
JonMacFhearghuis

Nope. Still not the original edits.

20 dager siden
TheBoshman95
TheBoshman95

A big problem is that games are too big, with too many features. Every game has to be a massive open world with crafting, stealth, combat, skill trees, 100s of collectables, and dozens of other features. If developers just buckle down and focus on a few of those features, I think we would have much better games.

20 dager siden
quincyking010
quincyking010

"Not a grind".... that's the definition of an mmo

20 dager siden
quincyking010
quincyking010

Hey jack y u gotta attack early access. Early access is not bad (though some have misused it). It is a great tool for developers to have people test their games and allows the consumer input in the development of the game

20 dager siden
Cheshire Havens
Cheshire Havens

The term you where looking for was cognitive dissonance

20 dager siden
William Hughes
William Hughes

When is Yahtzee going on red letter media to talk about DS9?

20 dager siden
William Hughes
William Hughes

@Ratel.H Badger regardless this is a conversation that needs to happen

11 dager siden
Ratel.H Badger
Ratel.H Badger

It would be funnier if he went on to discuss Discovery or Picard

11 dager siden
experiment0789
experiment0789

11:04 I don't care about people talking shit about President Trump when it comes to his personality but If Yahtzee is referring to all the covid deaths that's really unfair since the Presidency is not this position of total unchecked power, remember we are talking about a president not a dictator, and for all those who think he is a fascist, tell me historically when has a fascist been nice to the people against them?

20 dager siden
The Presitator
The Presitator

If anyone watches Ross's Game Dungeon, Trackmania2 Canyon's graphics were made objectively worse a few years after release. Presumably, this was to push consumers to buy newer games with "better" graphics (AKA the original graphics).

20 dager siden
Jay Hay
Jay Hay

are you seriously going to blame Trump for every death that happened because of the virus in the USA.

20 dager siden
nickakabrick
nickakabrick

it still makes me happy to see yahtzee and Jack being friends

20 dager siden
ariandynas
ariandynas

Ah but you know I miss Gabriel

20 dager siden
Sean O'Farrell
Sean O'Farrell

Another big deal with those Terms & Conditions is that they're only actively presented to the customer **after** the point of sale. In much of the world, this makes them wholly unenforceable, as it's effectively holding the product under duress and attempting to force additional contractual after the transaction has been completed.

20 dager siden
brokentool
brokentool

Warframe. is the example

20 dager siden
Steven Thomas
Steven Thomas

Sekiro just did a big free update, and I'm alright with that :)

20 dager siden
Old Crow
Old Crow

This was great

20 dager siden
God's God
God's God

A good argument for devs doing a good job changing games after release comes from the state of modern fighting games. At first I was taken aback by DLC characters being added, but after some consideration I found it was a welcome improvement. On one hand it could seem expensive spending $25 a year to keep current on a game one already purchased, but compared shelling out $50 or $60 each year for a sequel, it becomes clear that the developers have the players' interests in mind. This alone should determine whether or not it is a good idea for a developer to alter a game after release, simply whether or not the player benefits.

20 dager siden
Micky Deery
Micky Deery

So saw a really good comparison for the destiny 2 debacle, a season pass to a place rather then a game of old it's annoying, but it's making it less painful(that i only got around to running redwar and not the other 2 eventually free expansions because i ignored the game for like a month due to insufficient space on hard drive)

20 dager siden
Wickerbotter The Wizard
Wickerbotter The Wizard

I don't find live service games* redeemable, plain and simple. Destiny 2, World of Warcraft, Genshin Impact, etc none of them have enough redeeming qualities to not be overall negative to the overall quality of video games. With that disclaimer on record here's the gist with Destiny 2. It is incredibly easy to exhaust the content in Destiny 2 and 'beat the game'. You could have done every story missions, side mission, strike, or event in the window bungie gave their players to play that content. (Window being launched to being pulled from shelves) Not to mention the base game was made free to play so if you didn't like what you tried you could always uninstall the game before paying a cent.

21 dag siden
Wickerbotter The Wizard
Wickerbotter The Wizard

Pls forgive the typos this is from mobile

21 dag siden
Wickerbotter The Wizard
Wickerbotter The Wizard

While I don't approve of the overall business model of Destiny 2 I hardly find this to be the deal breaker. To me all the content being take away was awfully stale and old. It'd be like complaining that the arcade manager that he's taking the cabinet that nobody loves anymore away from the arcade. If either Jack or Yatz played Destiny 2 regularly they'd know that but I honestly don't blame them for not. Bungie is the train conductor putting down new track while it's going forward and never going backwards, not a pretty sight but it does seem to work so far. I do actually prefer the kind of game that Jack describes, one that is already well polished but destiny 2 was never trying to win any well polished awards, it's just trying to be the biggest looter shooter on the block and I think they know what they're doing. I think.

21 dag siden
CAP198462
CAP198462

Dinklebot, never forget.

21 dag siden
Weirdunclebob V
Weirdunclebob V

Jack, cognitive dissonance is what you're thinking of. Holding to a core belief even when you discover new evidence that debunks it.

21 dag siden
screeno42
screeno42

One solution I could see for the alteration cutoff point could be part of the purchase. Like one game could come with a couple months of support while another could offer several years(with some regulated upper limit of course).

21 dag siden
Rufus Connolly
Rufus Connolly

Yes, I love when I get extra content post-launch! Like loot boxes two weeks after the review cycle :D

21 dag siden
thepalalias
thepalalias

I definitely support the class action lawsuit idea - or even seeking a legislative remedy. Recent changes like this is are why I've almost entirely stopped buying games the year they are released and waiting until I can purchase the "complete" version.

21 dag siden
marinescu0511
marinescu0511

Probably not going to get noticed But warframe has been around long before destiny 1 and 2 And most of its live service usually revolves around cosmetics. All of its expansions are free and they are continuously updating the game. However the developers are having a problem with thinking bigger and bigger each update so sometimes it takes longer between updates. I recommend trying it out.

21 dag siden
bird3713
bird3713

Anyone else here just because they wanted to see what happened at the beginning of the podcast?

21 dag siden
FlashMeterRed
FlashMeterRed

T's & C's being simple and readable to a general public are already a law, but someone needs to challenge it as a defence in court when they have something enforced on them based on those T's & C's for anything to happen about it. Its essentially just an initial statement from a large company's lawyers - they don't have more legal binding than that.

21 dag siden
McNally
McNally

No talk of minecraft? You can pick and old version of the game from the launcher. You can boot the game in some random outdated update.

21 dag siden
Mister Doctor
Mister Doctor

Fallout 76 still releasing free content

21 dag siden

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